Leo and 800 Series chipset coming in May?

[MKruer]

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17896

So what I am taking away with this is that in May of 2010 we should see the first of the 800 series chip sets. That's a 6+ month delay. It better have direct support for USB3, SATA 6Gbps, 5000 series integrated GPU, and AM3r2 i.e. AM3+.

If this is true, screw it I will start my upgrade now. Any suggestion?
I only need a MB, Videocard and CPU.

I think that the new Phenom II x4 965 BE is a no brainer at this time.
The memory and MB will be tricker.
Also I guess I will be looking at a new Video card, Probably the 5850 unless that 5870 will drop by $70-$100
Also I need a new heat sink for my unit. And probably pick up a new Bluray reader / DVD burner because my current drive died
and a new Hard drive

So that's about $1000 right there.

[BaronMatrix]

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17896

So what I am taking away with this is that in May of 2010 we should see the first of the 800 series chip sets. That's a 6+ month delay. It better have direct support for USB3, SATA 6Gbps, 5000 series integrated GPU, and AM3r2 i.e. AM3+.

If this is true, screw it I will start my upgrade now. Any suggestion?
I only need a MB, Videocard and CPU.

I think that the new Phenom II x4 965 BE is a no brainer at this time.
The memory and MB will be tricker.
Also I guess I will be looking at a new Video card, Probably the 5850 unless that 5870 will drop by $70-$100
Also I need a new heat sink for my unit. And probably pick up a new Bluray reader / DVD burner because my current drive died
and a new Hard drive

So that's about $1000 right there.

I think they'll definitely get it out with SATA 6Gbps. The demoed it a few months ago with Seagate I believe. It was over at BSN. USB 3 won't matter for at least another year. And hey with eSATA 6Gbps, who cares. It should be compat with current cables. What I'me really waiting for is SSDs to get worth it. Right now I need a 128GB one with the stuff I have on my C drive. That's more than 4 500GB HDDs in a RAID stripe.

[MKruer]

Short list of items i need to get

AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE Rev. C

And

M4A79T Deluxe
or
M4A79XTD EVO

And

4 x 2GB DDR3 OCZ Gold AMD edition (capable of DDR3-1600)
or
4 x 2GB DDR3 OCZ DDR3 PC3-12800 Platinum AMD Edition
or
4 x 2GB DDR3 OCZ AMD Black Edition 4GB

And

Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme Rev.C Heatsink

[muziqaz]

Short list of items i need to get

AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE Rev. C

And

M4A79T Deluxe
or
M4A79XTD EVO

And

4 x 2GB DDR3 OCZ Gold AMD edition (capable of DDR3-1600)
or
4 x 2GB DDR3 OCZ DDR3 PC3-12800 Platinum AMD Edition
or
4 x 2GB DDR3 OCZ AMD Black Edition 4GB

And

Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme Rev.C Heatsink

ram - platinum edition if you can lay your hands on them, otherwise black edition. motherboard, why not msi GD70? although your selected ones are fine too. I would go with deluxe board.and cpu cooler: are you sure it has am3 fitting?
cpu: yeah, waiting for that as well

[AussieFX]

Personally I would hold until the ram problems are fixed. They're just waiting on some new suitable IC's.

[scientia]

Short list of items i need to get

AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE Rev. C
M4A79XTD EVO
4 x 2GB DDR3 OCZ AMD Black Edition 4GB

This sounds very similar to what I'm looking for. Either PII 955 BE or PII 965 BE (C3 stepping).
I like my Asus M4A785TD-V EVO so I'm thinking the same board but without IGP M4A79TD EVO sounds good. I don't need IGP on the second board since I'm going to get a 5770 video card. I was originally thinking about a 5850 but then when I realized I could get something very close to a 4890 (plus Direct X 10) for half the price of the 5850, I figured that was good enough.
I like my OCZ AMD Gold Edition so I thought I would try the Black.

Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme Rev.C Heatsink

I like the stock heatsink with the X3; I'm thinking a big heatsink would only get me about 100 Mhz. However, with an extra core I'm thinking a heavier heatsink might be a good idea. However, the Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme weighs 770 grams and AMD's maximum spec on socket AM2/AM3 is 500 grams. How do you handle a 50% weight increase?

[MKruer]

Short list of items i need to get

AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE Rev. C
M4A79XTD EVO
4 x 2GB DDR3 OCZ AMD Black Edition 4GB

This sounds very similar to what I'm looking for. Either PII 955 BE or PII 965 BE (C3 stepping).
I like my Asus M4A785TD-V EVO so I'm thinking the same board but without IGP M4A79TD EVO sounds good. I don't need IGP on the second board since I'm going to get a 5770 video card. I was originally thinking about a 5850 but then when I realized I could get something very close to a 4890 (plus Direct X 10) for half the price of the 5850, I figured that was good enough.
I like my OCZ AMD Gold Edition so I thought I would try the Black.

I copy from the best. I guess you can say the trick is to buy in essence a throwaway system, but still have as many compatible parts as possible. That was one of the reason for the motherboard, Newegg has an open box special for the board for $110 when then retail was $190. So you would recommend the black memory as well. What is so special about it, OCZ is not very clear on it. the Gold, black and Platinum all seem to have the same timings, but the Platinum is suppose to OC more, but that's about it.

Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme Rev.C Heatsink

I like the stock heatsink with the X3; I'm thinking a big heatsink would only get me about 100 Mhz. However, with an extra core I'm thinking a heavier heatsink might be a good idea. However, the Thermalright Ultra 120 eXtreme weighs 770 grams and AMD's maximum spec on socket AM2/AM3 is 500 grams. How do you handle a 50% weight increase?

There are two things, First is yes the "socket" is rated for 500grams, however all these extreme hestsinks are not mounted to the socket. They are mounted to the motherboard itself via retention bolts. That is why if you look at the motherboard they have the 4 screw holds around the socket. I don't know what the limit is on that, but suffice to say its more ten 500 grams. Really is more on the MB manufacture, the MB must be sturdy enough not to allow for too much deflection do to the weight. Also most of these heatsinks come with a back plate that you mount on the far side of the MS to distribute load.
The second aspect is that my Lian-Li case mounts the MB inverted so the MB heat sink would be <2cm from the structural support of the case itself resting the heatsink sideways.

[muziqaz]

platinums have much tighter timings than gold and black editions no need on overclocking, as you get 133mhz ram and 1600mhz ram which is more than enough for any desktop PC. platinums would be better if you can find them as they have cas 7 @ 1600mhz, while gold has cas 8 I think and black edition has cas 9(?) at 1600mhz.

[scientia]

So you would recommend the black memory as well. What is so special about it, OCZ is not very clear on it. the Gold, black and Platinum all seem to have the same timings, but the Platinum is suppose to OC more, but that's about it.

No, I'm going to give the Black a try; I don't know if it is any better than the Gold. It's just another $10, so why not?. The Platinum AMD is better but it doesn't seem to be available. The closest is the 1.9 volt version. The Gold AMD edition is obviously ordinary i7 memory with a timing map adjusted for AMD. The Black Edition theoretically includes additional information that AOD can use. Again, I'll have to see what the difference is; maybe it's nothing special.

There are two things, First is yes the "socket" is rated for 500grams, however all these extreme hestsinks are not mounted to the socket. They are mounted to the motherboard itself via retention bolts.

You mean the retention mechanism that was on the motherboard when I got it?

That is why if you look at the motherboard they have the 4 screw holds around the socket.

The only holes around the socket are the ones for holding on the retention mechanism.

I don't know what the limit is on that, but suffice to say its more ten 500 grams. Really is more on the MB manufacture, the MB must be sturdy enough not to allow for too much deflection do to the weight. Also most of these heatsinks come with a back plate that you mount on the far side of the MS to distribute load.

Are you talking about the metal back plate that was already on my motherboard when I got it?

The second aspect is that my Lian-Li case mounts the MB inverted so the MB heat sink would be <2cm from the structural support of the case itself resting the heatsink sideways.

Well, I don't think it would be an issue if we still used desktop cases where the weight was simply resting on top instead of applying a torquing force.

I checked Asus because theoretically they would determine how strong the motherboard is. Unfortunately they don't say. So, I looked at the coolers which are made by Asus and I noticed something peculiar. If you look at the coolers that they make specifically for either AMD or Intel none of them are heavier than 530 grams which suggests that 500 grams is the common limit for both Intel and AMD sockets. However, if you look at the multiple use models they do have some that are heavier. Specifically, the Royal Knight weighs 790 grams. To be honest, I wouldn't hang that on my motherboard.

[T800-101]

There are two things, First is yes the "socket" is rated for 500grams, however all these extreme hestsinks are not mounted to the socket. They are mounted to the motherboard itself via retention bolts.

You mean the retention mechanism that was on the motherboard when I got it?

That is why if you look at the motherboard they have the 4 screw holds around the socket.

The only holes around the socket are the ones for holding on the retention mechanism.

The 4 holes holding the stock retention bracket are what MKruer is talking about. With the aftermarket HSFs the supplied backplate hopefully provides much better support, although many of them still bend somewhat.

[scientia]

`

The 4 holes holding the stock retention bracket are what MKruer is talking about. With the aftermarket HSFs the supplied backplate hopefully provides much better support, although many of them still bend somewhat.

I'm having a hard time imagining a plate that would provide more support than the stock unit. Without anchoring it to the case itself I don't see how you could do any better. This plate spans the board area directly under the retention screws and from what I've seen that is precisely what all of the third party backing plates do. Right next to the CPU mount are the four DIMM slots. It appears to me that flexture of the board would be resisted primarly by these since they span between the upper and mid board mounting screws. I really don't think I would want to transmit that flexing force to the DIMM slots. 500 grams is more than a pound; it's really hard to imagine that that wouldn't be sufficient, especially with heat pipes.

[scientia]

This is the backing plate they sell for the Thermalright 120 Extreme. It looks only a little different to me.



And these are backing plates provided with CoolerMaster coolers. Notice the one in the upper right looks identical to what I already have.

[AussieFX]

platinums have much tighter timings than gold and black editions no need on overclocking, as you get 133mhz ram and 1600mhz ram which is more than enough for any desktop PC. platinums would be better if you can find them as they have cas 7 @ 1600mhz, while gold has cas 8 I think and black edition has cas 9(?) at 1600mhz.

The only difference is the binning, they all use the same IC's.

But they are a LOT more than I7 ram with optimised spd's. They are set to be programmed with profiles (if someone at AMD gets of their backside and programs them) through AOD and BEMP.

Good luck trying to get hold of any.

[MKruer]

From my understanding that 500grams comes the AM2 document that Heatsink Assembly, the basic Heatsink Assembly on those systems are all plastic. With the big after market cooler you remove the original mounting system and replace it with a steel one. Its that cheap-a** plastic piece that is responsible for the 500 gram limit.

Original Mounting


After market Mounting (yes i know its not a socket AMx but the principle is the same)


You can also look at the installation guide, you don't use the existing plastic Heatsink assembly. Instead you replace it with a steel clip. That little clip is probably rated for 2000grams or weight without bending.
http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/ ... vc/am2.pdf

However if it makes you feel more comfortably, This is a true monster weighing in at over 1900Grams
http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/ ... ndex.shtml

"Due to this reason, we strongly suggest installing it on a horizontal platform. Even though in our test lab, TRUE Copper was taken out for a test drive on a vertical platform and ran without a glitch as the motherboard came out unscathed. But since not all motherboards are manufactured the same way in terms of thickness and degree of stress, Thermalright cannot guarantee the condition of your motherboard after TRUE Copper is installed for a certainly amount of time. If you insist installing on a vertical platform, please check to make sure your motherboard is sturdy enough."

I don't ever recall seeign anyone this heat sink damaged my motherboard, the most of a complaint that i have heard was that it just doesn't fit!

[MKruer]

Cool newegg just got in the 965BE rev C so it looks like I am going to place my order this weekend. I think the last remaining issue was the ram.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

[muziqaz]

Cool newegg just got in the 965BE rev C so it looks like I am going to place my order this weekend. I think the last remaining issue was the ram.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

are you sure it is rev c3? Oh, yeah, I was mixing it with other cpus which had 140W and 125W versions need to check my suppliers

[muziqaz]

hehe, you are not the only ones beeing able to buy them
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/AMD-Phen ... 25W-Retail

looks like £7 more for c3 revision

too bad i won't be able to buy it for another two weeks

[brutis]

Cool newegg just got in the 965BE rev C so it looks like I am going to place my order this weekend. I think the last remaining issue was the ram.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

That's $50 less than what I thought they would come out at

[MKruer]

For all I know it could be a snafu on neweggs site. Anyway i went ahead a bought it

I changed the MB to
ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail for a few reasons, 1 it was cheap, second it has the latest chipset 785G which include a graphics but more importantly it appears to be the best one out at the moment, though it only supports the SB710, which is ok because the only difference between the sb710 and 750 is RAID 5
I got two 2Gx2|OCZ OCZ3BE1600C8LV4GK R - Retail OCZ black edition ram.
VGA SAPPHIRE|100283L HD5770 1G R - Retail
BD-COMBO LG | UH08LS10K % - OEM
and of course
CPU AMD|PH II X4 965 3.4G 6M RT - Retail

I had to get the heatsink from a second vendor, total setback with shipping at tax, a little over $1000.

I have a seasonic 400watt PSU that i can use to run the new system, i will spend a few weeks OC my new system. I just have to keep it light weight, not using my new graphics card only the integrated one.

[muziqaz]

For all I know it could be a snafu on neweggs site. Anyway i went ahead a bought it

I changed the MB to
ASUS M4A785TD-V EVO AM3 AMD 785G HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail for a few reasons, 1 it was cheap, second it has the latest chipset 785G which include a graphics but more importantly it appears to be the best one out at the moment, though it only supports the SB710, which is ok because the only difference between the sb710 and 750 is RAID 5
I got two 2Gx2|OCZ OCZ3BE1600C8LV4GK R - Retail OCZ black edition ram.
VGA SAPPHIRE|100283L HD5770 1G R - Retail
BD-COMBO LG | UH08LS10K % - OEM
and of course
CPU AMD|PH II X4 965 3.4G 6M RT - Retail

I had to get the heatsink from a second vendor, total setback with shipping at tax, a little over $1000.

I have a seasonic 400watt PSU that i can use to run the new system, i will spend a few weeks OC my new system. I just have to keep it light weight, not using my new graphics card only the integrated one.

waiting for the results

[T800-101]

I'm having a hard time imagining a plate that would provide more support than the stock unit. Without anchoring it to the case itself I don't see how you could do any better.

Aside from the fact that the stock backplate is most often not compatible with the aftermarket units, it depends. Some stock backplates are very good, some are plastic, some are very low grade steel.

I personally would like to see many of them more rigid, the motherboard does bend when you bolt down many of these larger units. But I've done many many aftermarket installs and have never had any of them fail on me, vertical or horizontal in the case. Although if you plan on shipping a complete system, you have to support the HSF. You can get away with not, but it depends on how the courier decides to treat the box, which is often not that well.

A word on the TRUE and it's derivatives. I have had more problems with it than most any other cooler. The base is sometimes concave or convex, a few I think the heatpipes were not sealed because the unit had terrible performance. And it takes A LOT of pressure to mount them, it will bend the motherboard. Yea very good cooler but over rated IMO.

As for the i7, I am still extremely confused how a CPU that can go above 80-90 degrees Celsius without too much trouble, can consume less power than a top end Phenom II. How is this possible? But according to the like of Anandtech this is indeed the case.

[MKruer]

he main reason that i did choose this is because it consistently rates within the top 10 in just about every review site out there..I have seen that complaint as well, however its by design not accident. the reason behind it was/is because the the heat spreader on the CPU tends to be slightly concave, so for the best surface contact the heatsink needs to be slightly convex. http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.c ... cleID=2244 Wost case scenario is that i have to lap the base

[T800-101]

I'd rather they just make the thing flat personally. The Phenom II's are nearly flat so it works for me.

My personal favorite is the Coolermaster Hyper 212. Half the price of the 120, only a few degrees warmer even with the supplied fan. IMO if you are having instability problems and can fix it by dropping down 3-4 degrees, you are pushing the CPU too far anyway.

[Polonium210]

I don't need IGP on the second board since I'm going to get a 5770 video card. I was originally thinking about a 5850 but then when I realized I could get something very close to a 4890 (plus Direct X 10) for half the price of the 5850, I figured that was good enough.

The 5770 is a very good card to get both price and performance wise. I will shortly be testing it as I run
simulations on the GPU 24x7.

[MU_Engineer]

As for the i7, I am still extremely confused how a CPU that can go above 80-90 degrees Celsius without too much trouble, can consume less power than a top end Phenom II. How is this possible? But according to the like of Anandtech this is indeed the case.

It's because there are several different ways to measure power consumption:

1. At the wall outlet. This is a good indicator of how much power a particular setup will need, but the differences in chipset and VRM power draw make this a very hard way to measure just CPU power draw.

2. At the ATX12V/EPS12V connector. This is supposed to just power the CPU, so you get a better idea of how much power the CPU draws than at the wall outlet. You still have VRM losses and the difference in VRM tuning can lead to pretty large differences in how much the same CPU draws through the ATX12V/EPS12V connector on different boards. Also, some CPUs like the Phenom IIs draw all of their power from this connector while others like the LGA1366 Core i7 draw some through this connector plus some through the 24-pin main power connector. This will certainly skew the power consumption numbers to make the CPU that draws power from additional sources look more energy-efficient.

3. After the VRMs. This would be the best way to measure CPU power draw, but it would require modifying the motherboard. I have not seen anybody do this.

4. Indirectly, by putting the same exact heatsink on several different CPUs and running them all in identical environmental conditions, then measuring the CPU temperature using a thermocouple. This would allow you to calculate the CPU's power consumption pretty reasonably if you know the thermal resistance of the heatsink, the room temp, and the airflow of the fans. CPUs convert virtually all of their energy input into heat, so you can measure the power consumption. You can do a quick-and-dirty version of this yourself by using the CPUs' onboard thermal diodes, but your accuracy will suffer somewhat.

The fact that the same heatsinks lead to a warmer CPU temperature on the i7s versus the Phenom IIs say that either the Intel units' temperature sensors are in never-never land or that the i7 actually have a higher power consumption. My guess is on the latter as the last time Intel sensors were in never-never land was with the Core 2 Penryn/Wolfdales and it was extremely widely known as people would have a cool-to-the-touch heatsink, cool peri-socket region, a cool socket thermocouple reading, but the core temp sensor would say the CPU was something goofy like 80 C or so. There is no such discussion with the i7s, which makes me believe that the sensors are all reasonably close and the i7s simply are less-efficient CPUs than the Phenom IIs, especially at load.