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Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

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Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby gilboa » Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:44 pm

I'm looking for a (relatively) cheap 24" and these two are the only two left. (Everything else is twice as expensive here)

AFAICS the Dell suffers from blurry text (A0-A1) and banding (A0-A3) problems.
I couldn't find anything tangible about the Philips - good, or bad.
In both cases, the local rep replaces the LCD if any stuck/dead-pixels are found.

The screen will mostly be used for coding (under vi ;)) and gaming (Mostly
FPS).

Oh, and I should point out that I'm rather inclined to get the Philips unit.

- Gilboa
DEV: S5520SC, 2xL5530, 12GB, 5x320GB / 1x120SSD, GTX470, F17/x86_64, 2711WFP.
SRV: i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9400GT, F17/x86-64, 2408WFP.
LAP: 1201N, A330, 2GB, 250GB, ION, F17/x86_64.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby The_Ghost » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:25 pm

http://www.bonafidereviews.com/article. ... 147&page=7

not a good review
http://www.pcauthority.com.au/review.aspx?CIaRID=2947

http://www.behardware.com/articles/629- ... -244t.html

http://www.biosmagazine.co.uk/rev.php?id=525

i personally do not like the ultra wide monitors , but i can see where it would work good for you , in your profession
Image
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby gilboa » Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:35 pm

Ghost,

I saw the reviews before posting, but thanks never the less.
I'm looking for some user feedback before deciding.

As for ultra wide, well, screw the profession! I can write code on may laptop's 14" LCD...
Play Quake4 on 24" wide LCD once, and you'll never want to go back! ;)

- Gilboa
DEV: S5520SC, 2xL5530, 12GB, 5x320GB / 1x120SSD, GTX470, F17/x86_64, 2711WFP.
SRV: i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9400GT, F17/x86-64, 2408WFP.
LAP: 1201N, A330, 2GB, 250GB, ION, F17/x86_64.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby J.F. » Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:23 pm

I have the Dell 2407WFP. The greatest thing - lots of inputs: I have my PC hooked to the DVI-D, my PS2 hooked to the component in, and a SVHS VCR to the S-Video. The DVI-D picture is great - native 1920x1200, I've never seen such a good picture. The component in is a little disappointing - it's pretty much the same as the S-Video in, both of which receive no special processing. You can set the video inputs to 4:3, stretch to 16:10, or exact size (centered and no larger than what is being input). If the computer input (VGA or DVI) is set to 60Hz, you can have picture-in-picture with the video inputs.

I've played DOOM 3, Quake 4, World of Warcraft 3, American McGee's Alice, and DVDs on it. I haven't noticed anything - no blurring, no ghosting, no banding. A word of warning - since the picture from the computer is so great, you need a good card and CPU to drive it. You cannot watch a DVD played on the computer without FULL post-processing. The slightest flaw in the MPEG2 image is magnified by how large and sharp the display is. That might be why some people report banding - there's no banding that I can see in the display itself, only in the images with banding that wouldn't be noticeable on a smaller panel. Poorly mastered DVDs will look rather bad as all their flaws become apparent. I can see why HD-DVD/BD were thought to be imperative for HDTV - they are. You NEED a picture that matches a display this size. That said, a well mastered DVD with post-processing on full looks better than anything you've ever seen... unless you have HD-DVD/BD. :D

Another great feature - the Dell has a USB hub and multi-card reader built in. I can read/write SD cards for my GameCube, and Memory Stick Pro Duo cards for my PSP without hassle. I have a USB printer connected to one of the USB ports.

For the price, the Dell is a great purchase. I recommend it without reservation. My Dell arrived quickly and was well packaged. I haven't seen a single dead or stuck pixel. After several months of use, it's still free of defects.

Two notes: In windows, you don't get anything beyond regular VESA modes until you install the monitor driver that comes with the panel. In linux, current distros read the highest resolution (the native resolution) incorrectly. You need to edit the xorg.conf file, changing 1680x1680 (what it thinks is the highest resolution) to 1920x1200. So both OSes have some kind of issue with getting you to the highest resolution. Both OSes use the USB hub and card reader fine.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby gilboa » Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:20 pm

(Windows? What's that? I already have Windows in my house - why would I want them on my new LCD? [Private joke - please ignore])

Which revision do you have? A3?
What about bad pixels?

- Gilboa
DEV: S5520SC, 2xL5530, 12GB, 5x320GB / 1x120SSD, GTX470, F17/x86_64, 2711WFP.
SRV: i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9400GT, F17/x86-64, 2408WFP.
LAP: 1201N, A330, 2GB, 250GB, ION, F17/x86_64.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby J.F. » Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:53 am

Says rev A02 on the back. It's about 4 months old. No bad pixels at all.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby gilboa » Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:22 pm

Do you see banding when you resize this picture?
http://www.spronkey.com/sdc-gradients.png
DEV: S5520SC, 2xL5530, 12GB, 5x320GB / 1x120SSD, GTX470, F17/x86_64, 2711WFP.
SRV: i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9400GT, F17/x86-64, 2408WFP.
LAP: 1201N, A330, 2GB, 250GB, ION, F17/x86_64.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby J.F. » Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:48 pm

You should be linking the tiff image - http://www.spronkey.com/sdc-gradients.tif

That's a very fascinating chart... handy for seeing how your panel does. I'll have to try it on my other panels as well.

For my Dell, there is no banding in the blue or green. The red diagonal squares show some very minor banding. It's not too obvious unless you get close to the monitor, and even then, it's not like the example banding in the legend at the bottom. Also, it's only on the diagonal images that you see any at all.

The png and tiff are the same, but the tiff is obviously higher quality. Of course, it's also twice the size.

EDIT: Oh, one thing I did check - the 2407 has different image modes you can select (desktop, multimedia, and gaming). Any mode other than desktop bands like a mo-fo. Maybe some of the people reporting banding issues simply set the mode to gaming thinking that would make the monitor better with games without trying the other modes. I don't know what the differences are TECHNICALLY between the different modes, but if you don't want banding, use desktop image mode with the 2407.

Another thought occured to me - the 2407 is a full inch larger physically, so fonts should be just a bit larger than on the Philips monitor.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby gilboa » Tue Nov 21, 2006 11:02 pm

As far as I know the Gaming mode activates the response time overdrive circuitry.
However, the 2407's overdrive seems to be severely broken - activate it, and you'll get severe banding and tearing.

BTW, I'm seeing some minor banding in the horizontal red bar on my Eizo 21" CRT (The one being replaced) so I guess I can leave with it.

- Gilboa
DEV: S5520SC, 2xL5530, 12GB, 5x320GB / 1x120SSD, GTX470, F17/x86_64, 2711WFP.
SRV: i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9400GT, F17/x86-64, 2408WFP.
LAP: 1201N, A330, 2GB, 250GB, ION, F17/x86_64.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby J.F. » Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:59 am

Seriously, I'd have never noticed anything if you hadn't posted that banding chart. It's that minor. For a cheap 24" monitor, you really can't complain. You need to pay twice as much to do better. In fact, the biggest complaint I'd read about the 2407 was by art/printing folks - apparently you need to adjust the settings a little to get the colors to be what they consider "exact", but they were able to do it. As it came from Dell, it was only "acceptable". :roll:

Seriously, this site had lots of expensive equipment where they photographed the screen and ran the results through this pro software to figure out how far off "perfect" the display was. About six graphs (I couldn't begin to follow) later, they had the difference down to 0.3 (where below 1.0 is considered "exact").

The other main complaint you hear (from XBox 360 people) is that the component input is only about the same quality as the S-Video input (true, verified with my PS2). If you wish for full quality from the XBox 360, get a VGA cable instead of a component cable. People are more than satisfied with the quality that way.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby gilboa » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:49 pm

Took your advice... and got the 2407 (A03)... and....








OHHHHHHHHHHHHHH MAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMA!!!!

Pros:
- Oh mama! That's a big Motha-****a!
- All 2304000 pixel are here and accounted for.
- No banding what-so-ever. (At lest non that I can see)
- Bright as hell. (Especially compared to my 7 y/o 21" Eizo CRT)

Cons:
Back-lighting is a bit non uniform (lower right) - though, it took me half an hour to notice it.

Thanks!
- Gilboa
DEV: S5520SC, 2xL5530, 12GB, 5x320GB / 1x120SSD, GTX470, F17/x86_64, 2711WFP.
SRV: i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9400GT, F17/x86-64, 2408WFP.
LAP: 1201N, A330, 2GB, 250GB, ION, F17/x86_64.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby J.F. » Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:27 pm

Some people report a little bit of unevenness in the backlighting, but I've never noticed anything. Maybe it's worse at brighter settings - I always turn the brightness down as LCDs are too d@mn bright these days. :D

And yes, the first impression upon setting up your monitor is HOLY COW!!! That thing's HUGE!!! :lol:

Glad to hear all the pixels are fine... that's always a crap-shoot with any LCD monitor. Mine was fine, but others may not be. I have a laptop with a stuck pixel, which I find worse than dead pixels.

I imagine they worked on the banding yet again for the A03 (I have A02).
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby gilboa » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:29 pm

The local DELL rep told me that DELL has decided to re-enter the LCD scene with a vengeance. Even a single dead pixel or minor banding is sufficient the get the unit replaced.
Luckily for me (or should I say, hopefully for me), I don't/won't need to test this new policy.

- Gilboa
DEV: S5520SC, 2xL5530, 12GB, 5x320GB / 1x120SSD, GTX470, F17/x86_64, 2711WFP.
SRV: i5400XT, 2xE5335, 8GB, 3x1.5TB, 9400GT, F17/x86-64, 2408WFP.
LAP: 1201N, A330, 2GB, 250GB, ION, F17/x86_64.
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Re: Philips 230WP7NS or Dell 2407WFP?

Postby J.F. » Wed Nov 22, 2006 9:32 pm

I'll keep that in mind the next time I'm getting another big monitor.
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